ProClass Discussion & Suggestions: ProClass draft vC9.1.3

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ProClass draft vC9.1.3

Printed From: ProClass
Category: ProClass
Forum Name: ProClass Discussion & Suggestions
Forum Discription: General discussion regarding the ProClass classification
URL: http://proclassforum.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=10
Printed Date: 30/Apr/2024 at 1:56pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.08 - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: ProClass draft vC9.1.3

Posted By: Jeff
Subject: ProClass draft vC9.1.3
Date Posted: 22/Apr/2009 at 2:18pm

A draft of ProClass version C9.1.3 is now available to download at http://forum.proclass.org.uk/call/ProClass_%20Draft_vC9.1.3.xls - http://forum.proclass.org.uk/call/ProClass_ Draft_vC9.1.3.xls . When the problems with the website are resolved the file will also be linked from the home page.

Please post any comments regarding the draft in this thread by the 28th April. Apologies for the short notice.

Replies:

Posted By: Jeff
Date Posted: 22/Apr/2009 at 6:37pm

Website is now refreshed with download link on home page.

Posted By: Sarah Sewell
Date Posted: 27/Apr/2009 at 10:42am

Thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback on the next version.

Please could I submit the following:

Please can existing category numbers remain the same and new numbers be created for additions.
Information Communication Technology - Please add Leasing at Level 2
Vehicle Management - I see no category that would fit hiring of vehicles, could you suggest an existing category or please create a new one at Level 2.
Social Community Care Supplies & Services – Adult - Please add Mental Health Services at Level 3
Social Community Care Supplies & Services – Children - Please add Advice & Counselling Services at Level 3

Posted By: pmannion
Date Posted: 27/Apr/2009 at 12:50pm

I'd ask that even in the case where a sub-category is 'deleted' from one main heading and another created under a new main heading the number stays the same. E.g. the new "Housing Management/Stock Management" category retains the number of the deleted "Consultancy/Housing/Stock Management" category. Primarily so that records in existing systems are not orphaned, and are easily re-categorised under the new heading.

Apologies if this was going to happen anyway, just wanted to make sure.

Posted By: Jeff
Date Posted: 27/Apr/2009 at 1:03pm

Originally posted by pmannion

I'd ask that even in the case where a sub-category is 'deleted' from one main heading and another created under a new main heading the number stays the same. E.g. the new "Housing Management/Stock Management" category retains the number of the deleted "Consultancy/Housing/Stock Management" category. Primarily so that records in existing systems are not orphaned, and are easily re-categorised under the new heading.

Apologies if this was going to happen anyway, just wanted to make sure.

I'm fairly sure that's the case in the new numbered version, but will ask Terry to comment on this when he returns to the office tomorrow.

Posted By: Chris Whiley
Date Posted: 27/Apr/2009 at 3:16pm

I would rather consultancy services were not absorbed within the more general descriptions. Analysis of my current data returns shows these categories are widely used and for my part I think they should continue to be differentiated as more like each other than like the generic services.

Also I suspect we are not the only local authority that wants to keep a close eye on consultancy costs and usage at present!

Posted By: BharatB
Date Posted: 05/May/2009 at 10:36am

Hi Jeff,

The Corporate Procurement Team at the London Borough of Enfield is allocating ProClass. There are a few areas where we need additions:

Sports Coaches

Room Hire

I understand that the deadline for amending the draft has gone but would be grateful for advice.

Many thanks

Posted By: tkashmore
Date Posted: 06/May/2009 at 11:43am

As most comments to do with numbering seem to want the number to stay the same even if the heading moves to a different top level, this is what we will do. If anyone objects to this or has a different view please let us know quickly. Once all the new or changed headings have been agreed we will issue the numbered version for comment too.

Posted By: tkashmore
Date Posted: 06/May/2009 at 2:20pm

We have looked into the request for 'Sports Coaches' and 'Room Hire'. We think that 'Room Hire' is a good additional heading and should be placed in 'Facilities & Management Services' as a second level heading. However with 'Sports Coach' which we assume is a person not a bus, we think that this is already covered adequately in 'Education' by either 'Adult & Further Education Services' or 'Children Services', depending on whether it is adult or children being coached. The reason for this is because if we added 'Coaching' as a second or third level heading we could be opening the doors to lots of other types of Coaching, which would take the number of headings to an unacceptable level.

A new draft version of ProClass will be issued very soon with this addition and a few other changes incorporated, for further comment.

Posted By: tkashmore
Date Posted: 06/May/2009 at 2:52pm

The reason that the number headings within the top level of 'Consultancy Services' has been reduced is because it was being over used and treated more as a miscellaneous dumping ground instead of the expenditure being classified to where it was spent . As an example – for some local authorities £ms of expenditure was being classified as 'Consultancy, Housing, Arms Length Management Organisations'. when it should really be have been classified as 'Housing Management, ‘Arms Length Management Organisations'.

Although it is important to be aware of how much expenditure is spent on consultancy this is not as important as classifying the spend under the correct area of expenditure

Posted By: tkashmore
Date Posted: 06/May/2009 at 3:03pm

We have looked into the following requests for additional headings:

Information Communication Technology - Please add Leasing at Level 2 - Agree

Vehicle Management - I see no category that would fit hiring of vehicles, could you suggest an existing category or please create a new one at Level 2 - Please provide a valid reason why 'Leasing' is not adequate?

Social Community Care Supplies & Services – Adult - Please add Mental Health Services at Level 3 - Agree

Social Community Care Supplies & Services – Children - Please add Advice & Counselling Services at Level 3 - Agree

Posted By: Chris Whiley
Date Posted: 06/May/2009 at 3:03pm

Surely the right thing to do in these circumstances is to seek corrected behaviour, not scrap a perfectly good and useful set of codes?

Posted By: Jeff
Date Posted: 06/May/2009 at 3:38pm

Draft version C9.1.4 is now available to download from the ProClass website. Please click http://forum.proclass.org.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=12 - HERE to discuss this new draft.

Posted By: tkashmore
Date Posted: 07/May/2009 at 10:25am

The original two principles of ProClass are to:

1. Target and provide information on high value expenditure

2. Have a hierarchy based around service departments (e.g. Housing, Leisure, Social Care)

The heading of ‘Consultancy’ should really only reflect expenditure of a general nature not covered by other headings. Unfortunately it contained many headings that were also within the service department headings. This was leading to confusion as to where this expenditure should be allocated

As we are not in a position to correct anyone’s behaviour. We have to ensure two things:

that the classification structure is able to provide accurate information on expenditure.
that the headings are easy to apply and not ambiguous or duplicated.

That is why the changes have taken place in ‘Consultancy’. They have not been ‘scrapped’ merely moved to more appropriate place in the classification

Posted By: Susan4011
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2009 at 2:55pm

We have just found out the hard way that you have reused number codes from version 8 for version 9. As we use ProClass this means for example that on loading your new table we are now sending Security spend to Retail!

V 8

192100

Facilities & Management Services

Security

192100

Facilities & Management Services

Retail

Do you have a table that maps from V 8.2 to V 9.1?

Regards

Susan

Posted By: Chris Whiley
Date Posted: 06/Oct/2009 at 3:05pm

Susan

A number of people expressed anxiety about this when version 9 was announced but as I read Terry's response dated 11.43 am on 6 May the relationships between headings and numbers was going to be retained.

Terry - what happened?

Posted By: tkashmore
Date Posted: 08/Oct/2009 at 3:32pm

It was agreed that that the numbers of moved headings would be retained after version C8.3 to solve this very problem. All older versions allowed numbers to be changed. Unfortunately we have no facility to keep all the older versions mapped to the current one. It will not happen to any versions later than C8.3.